Nick Offerman
Humorist, Woodworker
Los Angeles, CA
WM: This is quite a treat, Nick. Thank you for calling.
NO: Well I’ll try and keep it that way.
WM: How are things in California today?
NO: Things are good. I’m awfully excited to be here. My wife and I have been on tour for about six weeks. We just got home yesterday, so I’m awfully excited to be sitting in my shop.
WM: That’s excellent. How are things in the shop?
NO: Things are good looking in the shop. The elves have been busy. It’s one of the joys about running a collaboration. You get to get home from tour and somebody has been making some pretty nice walnut furniture.
WM: Awesome. Do you have plans to jump back in and make things of your own?
NO: I do. I have this book coming out which will require a book tour through mid-October into November. And then I’ve said no to every other damn showbiz job this whole year so that I can finally tackle this beautiful pile of milled pieces ready to become some ukuleles.
WM: Oh Fantastic. My daughter plays ukulele, she would love that.
NO: I hope she will. We’ll see.
WM: Well you mentioned your book, God Clean Fun, so let's talk about that. I would say that it's easily one of the most accessible and fun woodworking books that I've ever read. It's got great projects, sound techniques, and info for beginners like what tools to buy, how to set up your shop, which is all great on its own. But there are these great comics and beautiful collages and of course the humor. What drove you to present the book in this way?
NO: Gosh. Well first of all, thank you. That's easily the most generous compliment I've had about any of my books. I really appreciate it. That was my aim. I had written a couple other books and I don't think it would be immodest to say there was a clamoring from my readership for a woodworking book. And that combined with my good fortune and showbiz work was really killing my shop time. I said, ‘You know what? I can steer this machine to my own advantage.’ So I announced to my people that I was ready to do book three and it's gonna be about my shop. So I'm going to need to be in there for some months, working on the book and you can all go to hell. And it worked like a charm. I spent most of the first four month of this year in my shop working on the book. There's a lot of things that have led up to it, as you no doubt learned from the book, a big part of it was also communicating to my audience how important collaboration is in my life of my fellow woodworkers here at the shop as well as my family. I wanted it to be - and I do this with all my books - I say, ‘Okay, you're not a journalist’s, you're not a scholar, not a biographer. What do you have to offer? Why should people be interested in your book?’ And my answers to those questions are. ‘Well I think I can make George Washington more palatable to a modern reader.’ [Referencing one of his heroes in his book Gumption.] In this case, I'm not a master woodworker, you know, I’ll probably never open a school teaching my expert techniques because, I don’t think I'll ever have time to achieve those techniques. I do have confidence and I do have an incredible amount of enthusiasm and passion not only for woodworking, but all handcrafting. And so how can I take that desire and turn it into this 350-page piece of propaganda to get people off of their smart phones and onto their sharpening stones?
WM: I think there is - at least a little bit - a kind of resurgence in woodworking - maybe they start out as DIYers - and then there’s the maker movement. To what would you attribute this?
NO: I'm very optimistic that that is the case and I can only imagine that it's backlash or society rebounding from the trends of consumerism that began with the Industrial Revolution. [There’s this quote that says], our forefathers would be embarrassed if they saw how crappy the quality of goods are that get sold to people. And this quote was from like 1903. I hate to imagine what they would say if they saw what was on sale of the Crate & Barrel these days. I think that human nature is inherently lazy. If given the choice, we'd rather sit on the couch and press the remote than get up to change the channel. And that made it easy for industrialists and capitalists to sell us tons of crap and convenience and supposed luxury for decades. And finally the charismatic part of human nature kicked in and said, ‘Wait a second, I don't like sitting on a couch. I don't like letting my brain fester. And waste these beautiful tools that Mother Nature has provided me.’ I think that the age of largesse that I grew up in - the eighties and nineties - where it was everybody's dream to buy a Ferrari and to live in a mansion, that bubble has at least begun to burst and that means there's still a lot of fools chasing the spoils being promised us by television. There are many of us waking up to the fact in Wendell-Berry-fashion, but there are much greater treasures to be found in the garden, forest or the workshop - or the kitchen. And I think it’s something that's going to continue, and [I’m] excited about that, because I'm worried about our country.
WM: Yes these are questionable times.
NO: Yeah. Hopefully the kind of maelstrom that will come to a boiling head and then we'll see some sunnier days.
WM: Well let's hope so. In Good Clean Fun and and of course in your last book Gumption, you talk a lot about your heroes. But in the new book, there are these great profiles on your woodworking heroes. Can you talk a little bit about what it takes to be a woodworking hero to you?
NO: One thing that I try to get across with the book is that a lot of people think, ‘Woodworking sounds cool, let me check that out.’ And as they begin to look into it, it can be very off-putting. They immediately see the masterworks that people are turning out - you know it can be intimidating to imagine, ‘Oh gosh, I can never build a Bombay Chest or a Queen Anne Highboy.’ What I’m trying to impart is that if you build a crappy doghouse that keeps the rain off your pooch, that bed is also woodworking. So I tried to cover a bit of a gamut with these eight profiles. There are historically well-known woodworkers like Mira Nakashima, Garry Knox Bennett, and Christian Becksvoort. And then there are younger movers and shakers like Peter Galbert and Laura Zahn. And you sort of take a left turn into Canada with Bear Mountain Boats. It’s a spectrum of people who devoted their lives to some form of woodworking. And by wholly allowing it to consume them, they achieved some great level or degree of success. That reminds me of the Bear Mountain Boats chapter. Ted Moores, whose one-half of the couple running Bear Mountain Boats, says some great things on that level. He's hilarious, he says “The way to make a small fortune in the boat business is to start with a big one.” He says some great things about how he’s fascinated with the charisma of wood, and noble qualities of wood. Specifically how to put them together working on a boat. And by devoting his life to that, he feels like he's won so many greater riches than he ever could have achieved in a colder world of business or retail.
WM: So it's not only their craftsmanship, but the integrity of their work and what they've managed to accomplish with what they had.
NO: Well sure. Each in their own way has risen to the top of the pack. It’s hard to wrap up in a sound bite. Mira Nakashima never intended to be a woodworker and ended up taking over possibly the most venerated line of studio furniture in the country. And [she] took to it and said, ‘I’m going to take the baton and get back out ahead of the pack.’ And she's done so. Laura Zahn - and Laura Mays, this badass woodworker from Ireland whose now running the College of the Redwoods program…They all made the right decision to follow their passion rather than what the material world told them would be satisfying. And they all won the day in a way that made me admire and want to emulate them.
WM: It's very apparent that you like to push the spotlight off of yourself and and onto these other people that you profile in your book. And even more of the behind-the-scenes folks too. What brings you to that level of appreciation? Is it a matter of surrounding yourself with the right people?
NO: I think it's just me being honest. I started Offerman Woodshop because I knew I was going to be spending a lot less time in the shop because of my job on Parks and Recreation. And that caused it to become a co-op. And we brought people in. And it immediately became clear that I had a choice in front of me. On one hand I could become like a huge artist like Jeff Koons or somebody where I had a group of employees making “Nick Offerman” pieces, slap my name on it and sell it more for the name than the piece. Or, I could embrace this group of woodworkers and encourage them to become fully realized on their own. And it’s something I’m constantly fighting. Part of the reason [Good Clean Fun] is like that is because the world wants everything that comes out of here to be made by Ron Swanson. And that upsets me because you're getting something much better, you're getting something made by Lee or by Matt Micucci. A real person has made this. If we sold Ron Swanson cutting boards, they’d be crappy. They wouldn’t be imbued with the quality that they are when these people are making them themselves. It just seems decent to me to say, “Hey I love this, I run this place, but it wouldn't be happening when I'm on of the road nine months of the year. None of this happens without all of these amazing collaborators. I also wanted to suggest to people woodworking can seem like such a solitary pursuit, you know, and at times it is. When you fire up your sander, everyone clears out of the room. But I want to suggest to people that making things in general is so rewarding. Part of the lifestyle we're trying to get back to is not just making your own furniture or making clothing or what have you, but it's behaving as a community, a neighborhood, as a fellowship. And just getting together with friends. The book is a very much a celebration of that idea as well. Maybe you can learn woodworking a lot better if you go in with three friends and you each buy two of the tools you need. Or if you look around and find an artist collective, there’s gonna be a woodworker, but there's also going to be a stained-glass [maker], and a knitter. And it’s so much more fun and productive to do these things together rather than on our lonesomes.
WM: That’s a very cool philosophy and one that really does come across in Good Clean Fun, as well as your other books.
What's your favorite tool in the shop? What tool gets you most excited when you reach for it?
NO: That's a tough question just because it's kind of like saying what’s your favorite state in the nation. There are so many good ones. But the first thing that jumped to mind is a spokeshave. And that's because when I'm using the spokeshave generally that means i'm making something curvy like a canoe paddle or a stool leg. And the first time I really got to freak out on a spokeshave was when I built my first canoe and I was making the carrying yolk - the center thwart of the canoe. I went way overboard and sculpted the yolk like an old Dutch bucket. And it was because it was the first time that I had broken away form rectilinear pieces. And the freedom that I felt in shaping curved wood freehand felt like I had discovered a secret magical weapon or something. Like, ‘Oh my god I can’t believe this piece of wood and steel can do this.’ So that's what jumps to mind. But standing here looking at a pretty amazing bandsaw right here doesn’t hurt my feelings either.
WM: I’m sure. Speaking of you sort of looking around your shop, I thought it was a great touch to add in your book the floor plan for your shop. I loved going through and picking out everything. Does the floor plan change a lot, or is it pretty much set in stone as you have it?
NO: First of all I'm glad to hear that. Like so many woodworkers, its kind of like porn for us to get those books about people’s shops and how they're set up. There’s something really neat about saying, ‘This lady took her barn in Vermont and here’s how she laid out her shop. She mainly makes curio cabinets. And this guy, here’s what he did with 28 square feet in San Diego’…etc. And so I was thrilled to do a meticulous layout of our place. Ya know, it’s geeky. It appeals to the Dungeons & Dragons side of all of us. And generally the layout doesn't change much. We have recently undergone a little bit of an expansion where we moved all of our slabs across the driveway, basically because we're continuing to grow and we need more finishing space. Other than creating a little more space in back, the layout really hasn't changed for many years.
WM: So what other hobbies occupy your time?
NO: My wife and I, our main vice, a couple boring Hollywood types - we’re supposed to be out at the club, you know, taking whatever the kids are taking for a good time these days. We instead make it our obsession to stay home whenever possible and we love to do jigsaw puzzles. I mean it's quite simple, so we do that. That's like the ultimate vacation if we can turn off all the phones and put on an audiobook and do a jigsaw puzzle for a week. Other than that, I am a voracious reader and I love to get outside. I love to hike, and canoe, and bicycle. Whenever and wherever possible. I don't get to do those nearly enough. And I play the guitar. That’s something I use as a humorist, I play songs. That list is pretty much it. Most of my time is performing as a clown or working in or about the shop - and writing. When I get a break, I desperately reach for one of the above.
WM: Woodcraft Magazine did an article a while back called Advice to My Younger Self. The premise is that you go back in time and with limited time, you have the chance to impart woodworking wisdom upon your younger self. What advice would you give yourself?
NO: Wow. Well I guess my advice would be: be patient. If you follow your gut and not the advertisements on the side of the bus, everything will turn out as nature intended. That brings the most satisfaction.
WM: Good Advice. Another topic that the magazine covered was adventure travel for woodworkers. What woodworker-friendly locale would you recommend?
NO: Gosh. There are locations that I’d like to get to, but haven’t. As far as recommending locations that I've visited, two spring to mind. One is the giant redwoods and sequoia of California. I don't ever hope to be involved in any of these trees coming down, but as a lover of the medium of wood, the building material…It's like if you were a chef and you love making pies, and you can go to a place where there are hundred pound blueberries, that's what the redwoods are like. I'm a massive fan of the Lord of the Rings books - and I love movies, but I’m compelled to point out that I read the books eight times before Peter Jackson ever cropped up in my inbox. Visiting the redwood forest, makes me feel more like a hobbit than anywhere else on the planet. And the other place is any boat building shop. I profile one in Gumption: Gannon and Benjamin Marine Railway on Martha’s Vineyard. But there are amazing shops anywhere there's a big lake or a sea or an ocean, you’re going to find somebody building boats. And to get into a shop or where men and women are building boats to me is like visiting Hogwarts or something. There is wizardry flowing through the chisels of those noble people.
WM: So what is it the about boat building that is so intriguing to you? Is it a particular aspect of the craft or does it just take a different kind of woodworker to make boats?
NO: Well ya know a boat doesn't have any straight line on it, so it does take a higher degree of skill. I guess generally, making a table, or a stool, or a hat rack, those are all amazing things. You’re taking this natural product and shaping it in a way that will serve you and your family for generations to come. Many Offerman hats will hang upon that rack, if you play your cards right. But then building a boat, taking wood and turning it into a thin and sturdy shell that can carry you and your loved ones - and your cooler full of beer - across a body of water in a safe and dry fashion. To me, that's just super heroic. And over the centuries our designs and techniques for building boats have been perfected. In many ways, we're building boats exactly the same way that it has been done for centuries. And that's because the human mammal saw how the boat rode in the Irish Sea, or the Saint Lawrence Seaway, or the Mississippi River and they said, ‘This needs a little more tumblehome to keep these waves from coming over the gunnel. Of all the things that I’ve made, paddling down the river in a canoe of my own manufacture just felt like I discovered a superpower. Like, ‘Oh, I can turn invisible, this is amazing.’
WM: Who would you like to see us interview next?
NO: When I was working with Peter Galbert in Boston at the North Bennet Street School he said to me - ya know, I was kinda talking about my book and how I don’t have time to be an obsessive a fan of the woodworking movement as I’d like to. [That] was another reason that I chose to turn my lens upon the topic for this book was so that I can geek out for a while. And he said that he thought that number one sort of young American woodworker was a guy named Caleb James. He’s in the southeast, I think he’s in one of the Carolinas. And he’s making his own spokeshaves and planes, and scrapers. And he’s deep in. He’s taken the old traditions on board. That’s what I love about this craft: we all make all the mistakes together and pass them on and say, ‘You should use a scraper on that table instead of a sander. That grain in ornery.’ Each preceding generation is able to benefit from that. Caleb James and Peter Galbret, who told me about him. As I mentioned in the book, Peter Gilbert, that guy is so sharp. I really look up to him. He has invented three or four new tools already, and he’s in his early 40s. So, those are a couple that spring to mind.
WM: Awesome. So are there any final words of wisdom that you’d like to impart on the readers of Woodcraft Magazine?
NO: If I had to boil down the message of my book into the simplest modicum - in a crucible, it would be: just get started. You know, it's really wonderful to read and look at things that people do and have done and to daydream about what what we might do, but the most important thing is to just start making mistakes because then you'll learn how to avoid the mistakes and then suddenly, you’ve made a chest of drawers.
WM: Very good advice. Well, Nick, I know you’re a very busy guy, and I appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
NO: I have nothing but gratitude. Every time I have a book come out and somebody takes the time to read it, and then still wants to talk to me about it, it just make me very grateful. I thank you for your generous handling of me.
